1 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,559 I think it's very important for writers, 2 00:00:14,559 --> 00:00:18,320 whether young or older, to have an 3 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:19,600 audience, to have people who are 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 sympathetic and supportive, but also 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,480 fellow writers who have critical ideas 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,359 and constructive suggestions. It's very 7 00:00:27,359 --> 00:00:29,359 good to have other people reading your 8 00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:31,920 work. There are many many ways in which 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,040 it's uh very instructive and the most 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,680 obvious way is sometimes a reader just 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,280 doesn't know what's happening in a story 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,800 and doesn't understand what the writer 13 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,920 is trying to do. When we read a work of 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,000 fiction, we don't know the intention of 15 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,719 the writer. So editors receive material 16 00:00:48,719 --> 00:00:51,680 all the time and we may reject material 17 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,280 that's potentially very good but we 18 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,800 don't understand it or something's been 19 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,719 left out or it's the wrong title or 20 00:00:56,719 --> 00:00:59,199 something's wrong with it. But in a 21 00:00:59,199 --> 00:01:01,199 workshop, the writer can be asked. We 22 00:01:01,199 --> 00:01:03,680 can ask, "What did you mean by this? And 23 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,360 why is this title what it is? And why 24 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,520 did you end it this way?" And in a 25 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,000 discussion, the writer may learn that 26 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,080 his or her intention did not come 27 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,840 through at all. That people don't 28 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,159 understand what happened, that the main 29 00:01:16,159 --> 00:01:17,920 part of the story has been sort of left 30 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,720 out. Sometimes a new writer will want to 31 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,119 not be too obvious or too explicit, and 32 00:01:23,119 --> 00:01:26,320 so the story might be too subtle. So the 33 00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:29,439 workshop is a way where you get feedback 34 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:32,079 from from interested and intelligent 35 00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:35,040 readers. And I find the workshops 36 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,520 amazing because the young writers in my 37 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,280 workshops 38 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,840 often behave like editors. They're very 39 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,600 very sophisticated in the way they're 40 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,399 looking at the structure of work and I 41 00:01:46,399 --> 00:01:48,560 think very supportive and warm and 42 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,040 really a friendly atmosphere and I think 43 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,320 very necessary for writers to feel that 44 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,240 their work is wanted and and it's 45 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,119 interesting and people will applaud it 46 00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:01,360 and laugh at it when it's funny and so 47 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,000 it's part of just the experience of of 48 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,000 writing. 49 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:14,319 So, with our our reduced but exemplary 50 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:15,920 writing workshop, we're going to discuss 51 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:18,239 two stories today. First, we're going to 52 00:02:18,239 --> 00:02:22,239 take up Lindsay's story, Labor Day. And 53 00:02:22,239 --> 00:02:24,480 so, instead of there being like 10 other 54 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,720 people here to discuss it, there's 55 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,280 basically Corey. So, you're going to 56 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,879 have to stand in for a lot of other 57 00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:32,879 people. So my best Corey and I will just 58 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:34,400 have a sort of a discussion about it and 59 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,959 you can listen but but we can ask you 60 00:02:36,959 --> 00:02:38,879 questions also. 61 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:42,239 Okay. So I'm just going to ask uh Corey 62 00:02:42,239 --> 00:02:44,959 what was your reading experience? U just 63 00:02:44,959 --> 00:02:46,560 did you like the story? 64 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,120 Yeah, I I loved it. It um I think the 65 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,879 the best place to start on it is the 66 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:53,280 level of experience just because it's 67 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,840 the on affect level it's it's very funny 68 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,239 moment by moment. Um I laughed often 69 00:02:58,239 --> 00:03:01,840 reading it and it it's also paced very 70 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:02,560 quickly. 71 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:02,800 Yes. 72 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:03,760 Um yes 73 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,560 to that to the point that um I mean it's 74 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,159 a page turner for a short story which is 75 00:03:08,159 --> 00:03:10,000 which is quite a feat. 76 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,280 Um and then like as as I was reading it 77 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:14,800 and thinking oh this is a this is a 78 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,840 comedic sort of jaunt into almost like a 79 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,599 comedy of manners type situation. All of 80 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:22,239 a sudden it started to descend into 81 00:03:22,239 --> 00:03:23,840 uh what I would pretty much describe as 82 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,599 a horror scene. 83 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:28,480 Yeah. it very quickly becomes traumatic 84 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,400 with details of like like almost like 85 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,040 Vizera and she's trapped in this house, 86 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,720 right? Um, so I think it almost has some 87 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,040 like gothic elements, maybe possibly not 88 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,319 gothic so much as horror elements. Um, 89 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:43,840 and then I was joking earlier about how 90 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,280 it's also sort of like a heist narrative 91 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:46,720 because you got to get in there, get 92 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,280 that drive jacket and escape with like 93 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,720 unscathed. Um, so I actually think 94 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,040 it's a very enjoyable read on the level 95 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,080 of affect and um and I had I had had a 96 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,599 wonderful experience reading it. 97 00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:01,280 Now I like the I like your your 98 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,959 description of it being like a heist. 99 00:04:02,959 --> 00:04:03,280 Yeah. 100 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,319 Because we come into the story in in the 101 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:08,159 consciousness of this protagonist and 102 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:10,000 she has her intention. She wants to 103 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,599 steal back her own jacket, 104 00:04:11,599 --> 00:04:12,080 right? 105 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,000 But she almost forgets about it a little 106 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,160 bit and then she actually does it. So 107 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,440 there's a little feeling like of 108 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,519 satisfaction when she does that. That 109 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:22,320 that's a that's a good point. And then 110 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,000 the uh what do you think of the movie 111 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,040 Grizzly? The watching this movie. 112 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,759 Yeah. So that's one of the early there 113 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:31,440 are earlier cues but one of the earliest 114 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,400 cues that the the sort of interior 115 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,240 struggles of our main character or 116 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,280 protagonist are revolving around death. 117 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:41,680 I think um because there's this movie 118 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,120 Grizzly Man, which is that famous 119 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,680 Verarog movie about the the very 120 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,360 passionate filmmaker who's devoured by 121 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,639 bears and and um they're sort of 122 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:53,199 watching it kind of callously 123 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:55,199 um and the narrator seems the thing 124 00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:56,880 about this narrator is 125 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,880 um she is astute um and observant and I 126 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,280 think even says explicitly I feain naive 127 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,120 rather than sort of like that too 128 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,600 share my thoughts on So that's one of 129 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,360 those moments where she 130 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,160 is like clearly observing the sort of 131 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,759 something sadistic about these people 132 00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:17,360 sitting around watching like Grizzly 133 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,360 Bear, but she won't remark on that. 134 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:20,720 Um, and I thought those were actually 135 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,000 very powerful moments in the story 136 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,039 because 137 00:05:23,039 --> 00:05:24,639 you're getting an interiority that's 138 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:27,840 observing something sort of critically 139 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:29,520 and at a remove and it created a lot of 140 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:30,000 humor. 141 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,240 Right. Well, there's there's a whole 142 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,880 almost like an archetype or a tradition 143 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,400 of 144 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,880 undercutting the idea of man and nature 145 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,280 by showing like into the wild was 146 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:44,160 another film based on a memoir 147 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,639 or maybe a book about somebody who goes 148 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:48,000 into the wild 149 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,919 and he's not really prepared and he's 150 00:05:49,919 --> 00:05:51,919 sort of naive. He's maybe a student at 151 00:05:51,919 --> 00:05:54,000 Berkeley or somewhere. He decides just 152 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,080 to go backpacking and he's not he's not 153 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,240 prepared. But in that movie, he starves 154 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,479 to death, I think. Or he eats something, 155 00:06:00,479 --> 00:06:02,240 he's desperate, and so he eats something 156 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,120 that's poisonous. And these these 157 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,680 movies, they seem to be movies, they 158 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,319 undermine the idea of that we can go 159 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:12,639 into nature or that if you go into 160 00:06:12,639 --> 00:06:14,800 nature, you're so silly or you deserve 161 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,199 to die, you deserve to starve to death 162 00:06:17,199 --> 00:06:19,039 or you deserve to be eaten by a bear. 163 00:06:19,039 --> 00:06:21,199 You know, I'm making a lot of this 164 00:06:21,199 --> 00:06:23,600 because the author, who's actually right 165 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:24,960 here, 166 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,479 the author puts this the movie in very 167 00:06:28,479 --> 00:06:29,199 pointedly. 168 00:06:29,199 --> 00:06:29,840 Yeah. 169 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:33,280 It's it's like your uh your demonized 170 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:35,600 pigs in your story from from the Bible. 171 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,919 They're these are inserts with a lot of 172 00:06:37,919 --> 00:06:41,039 symbolic weight. 173 00:06:41,039 --> 00:06:41,600 Okay. 174 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,759 There's actually film film references 175 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:45,280 throughout because it's a very sort of 176 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,440 LA story. 177 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,000 Yes. Um, and and all of them are, I 178 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,160 think, significant and well portrayed. I 179 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:53,199 mean, I would love to talk to you about 180 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:54,560 your relationship with the movie Grizzly 181 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,000 Man. And if if you were kind of drawing 182 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,680 on these same resonances that Joyce 183 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:58,240 pointed out. 184 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,680 Do you want to say just a few words why 185 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,199 why you put Grizzly Man? 186 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:02,560 Yeah, it's interesting to hear you guys 187 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,199 talk because I think sometimes I write a 188 00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:07,759 little bit intuitively or associative 189 00:07:07,759 --> 00:07:09,599 like associatively. Mhm. 190 00:07:09,599 --> 00:07:12,639 So, I think I put that in there kind of 191 00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:15,199 thinking that she was on this Goldilocks 192 00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:17,440 and the Three Bears sort of, 193 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:18,720 you know, fairy tale. 194 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,240 Oh, yeah. That's good. 195 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,960 But, um, I like that. I feel like all of 196 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,120 that was in there as well. Like, I I 197 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,960 didn't really understand when I was 198 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,160 writing the relationship with Naive and 199 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,319 how that was playing back and forth. So, 200 00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:32,720 yeah. 201 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,319 No, I like that that sort of connotation 202 00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:38,319 of Goldilocks and with the three bears. 203 00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:40,880 That's very That's very good, too. She's 204 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,960 coming into their their household and 205 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,360 she actually sleeps with them and yeah, 206 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:46,720 that's really good. 207 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:47,840 And the story starts there's a 208 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,199 possibility she's driving down there to 209 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:50,319 have a threesome, right? That's the 210 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:52,400 comedy of the story. And then it becomes 211 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,080 her hanging this dress. Uh, and it's 212 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:57,759 like the culminating moment of one of 213 00:07:57,759 --> 00:07:59,120 the culminating moments of the story, I 214 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,280 would say. And she's hanging this dress 215 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:02,800 and she just talks about how she's good 216 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,400 at it, right? She's like, "I'm good at 217 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,639 it, and I know how to communicate with 218 00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:08,240 the person I'm pinning this dress on, 219 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:09,759 and I'm like," she's like completely 220 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:12,560 confident in that moment. Um, and I 221 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,759 think to the more interiority you can 222 00:08:15,759 --> 00:08:17,440 get from this character, the better 223 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,479 because it's just um 224 00:08:20,479 --> 00:08:21,680 that might change the style a bit, but 225 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,759 it but it's just a strong she has a 226 00:08:23,759 --> 00:08:25,440 strong personality, and the moments that 227 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,280 it does shine through are are 228 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,520 delightful. Could I Where's that section 229 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:30,479 that I'm talking about? You know what 230 00:08:30,479 --> 00:08:30,960 I'm talking about. 231 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,240 So, 16. 232 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:33,279 Yes. realm. 233 00:08:33,279 --> 00:08:34,159 Um, 234 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:35,680 she said, "I know that I'm good. I'm 235 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:39,839 good at it. I know that I'm good at it." 236 00:08:39,839 --> 00:08:42,000 It's one of the few parts of the story 237 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,760 where she has a real um self assertion. 238 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,959 Um, yeah. Down here on 16. Um, do you 239 00:08:48,959 --> 00:08:50,160 want to read it, Lindsay? Is that how we 240 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:51,040 should do this? 241 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,720 Oh, should I read it aloud? 242 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,240 Okay, good. Good idea. I knew I was good 243 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,320 at what I was doing. I'm good at draping 244 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,160 fabrics over people. I'm good at 245 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,839 determining whether people want to hide 246 00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:04,000 or stand out or what parts of themselves 247 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,279 they want to hide and what parts of 248 00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:07,120 themselves they want to stand out. I 249 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,000 started off by trying to conceal Elsa's 250 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,800 hips, the hips that gave away her age. 251 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,720 But then by the way her stance shifted, 252 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,320 I could tell she felt uncomfortable with 253 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,160 the way the dress was falling on her. 254 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,000 And I understood she liked this part of 255 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,240 herself, even loved it. And I switched 256 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:23,920 gears and bunched up a fist full of 257 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,519 fabric, pinned it, and marked it for 258 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:27,519 removal. After the adjustment, she 259 00:09:27,519 --> 00:09:29,440 straightened her posture and I felt her 260 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:30,880 power in that moment coursing through 261 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,519 me. I always wanted softer angles, but 262 00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:35,120 Elsa wanted everything sharp and 263 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,519 focused. I subtracted large swasts of 264 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:38,959 fabric until it was an entirely 265 00:09:38,959 --> 00:09:40,880 different dress all together. 266 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,800 That's that's really a nice paragraph. I 267 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,839 thought it it shows the agency that she 268 00:09:45,839 --> 00:09:48,399 has really beneath her naivity. She's 269 00:09:48,399 --> 00:09:52,640 actually like a a serious craftswoman or 270 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,160 artist. Yeah, it was good. 271 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,880 Also her allegiance and sensitivity with 272 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,560 Ilsa is so much more than with Cliff. 273 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:01,519 Oh my gosh. Absolutely. 274 00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:03,360 It's so like the two women are having a 275 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,080 rapport and the man. Cliff is sort of 276 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:07,600 borish 277 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,200 compared to the to the women and to the 278 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,600 to the animals. The animals are more 279 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,360 sensitive than than Cliff. 280 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,519 There's a lot of strong images in this 281 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:21,760 as well. The pineapple is something I 282 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,440 will not soon forget, I think. 283 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,399 Yes. Um, 284 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:29,519 lots of sort of disgusting things. 285 00:10:29,519 --> 00:10:31,440 How do you pronounce that word? The food 286 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:32,880 that they eat. 287 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,160 Oh, the shashuka. 288 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,360 Shashuka. We don't want any of that. Uh, 289 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,040 we need to know how to pronounce that 290 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,720 because we don't want that. 291 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,560 And I love that line. I'm sorry. It's 292 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,959 just that there were ants and she's 293 00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:48,560 following the ant trail and she's 294 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:49,760 cleaning that up. I thought that was 295 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,920 very funny. She's all this cleaning. I 296 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,680 really could identify with that. Then 297 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:55,440 after all that, there's still a trail of 298 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,760 ants. That was very, very funny. 299 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,600 The one of the strengths of the story is 300 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,600 it seems like somebody's opened a door 301 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,720 and we're just in this this room or this 302 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,959 this apartment and just seeing the way 303 00:11:08,959 --> 00:11:10,399 people actually live. 304 00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:13,279 There was a moment where she's basically 305 00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:15,519 has to take a cold shower, which is hor 306 00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:17,279 horrifying in itself. It's like the 307 00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:19,200 first thing that happens. And it's also 308 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:20,959 a sort of a funny joke because the story 309 00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:22,800 starts and you think it like it starts 310 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,320 on the promise of a threesome. That's 311 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,519 how it starts. I'm not the kind of woman 312 00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:26,800 who would participate in a threesome, 313 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,519 which is exactly why I went and then it 314 00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:30,800 by the time she gets into the house, 315 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,959 it's literally a cold shower 316 00:11:32,959 --> 00:11:35,279 that starts this horrific weekend that 317 00:11:35,279 --> 00:11:38,399 like obviously doesn't end that way. Um, 318 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:40,720 and that those are the kind of sort of 319 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,200 like embodied moments that that kind of 320 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,040 hit me on the level that gothic horror 321 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,640 does. the sort of a effect level of just 322 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,760 like I mean it's it's hard to imagine 323 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,200 something more horrible than just taking 324 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,120 a a cold shower and then having to get 325 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,839 out of it and put on your clothes 326 00:11:55,839 --> 00:11:57,360 which cling to you and you're walking 327 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,680 around sping wet in some apartment. 328 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:01,839 Um so I think yeah you have a you have a 329 00:12:01,839 --> 00:12:04,240 great strength in that area of of 330 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,000 creating a effect for your reader which 331 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,079 is very very hard to do I've found. 332 00:12:08,079 --> 00:12:10,320 Yeah. And then this little sentence just 333 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,079 I neglected to bring my I didn't think I 334 00:12:12,079 --> 00:12:14,079 had to bring my own towel. you know, 335 00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:15,600 she's not even complaining. She'll say, 336 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,279 "I didn't really think I had to bring my 337 00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:19,200 own towel. I thought that was very much 338 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,200 in character." 339 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,760 But I often ask a write a writer what 340 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,240 the story means to him or her. Like, is 341 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,880 this um an early draft of a work that 342 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,480 you think of working on? Is it something 343 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,240 you've already been working on for a 344 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,720 long time? Is it something that you care 345 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,399 a lot about? Is it maybe part of a 346 00:12:36,399 --> 00:12:39,680 novel? So, is it something new to you or 347 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:41,040 is it more old? 348 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,200 Yes. No, it's very new. I think I wrote 349 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,760 it this month. So, yeah. So, it's the 350 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,839 most recent thing that I've been working 351 00:12:47,839 --> 00:12:48,720 on. Um, 352 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,320 so it's kind of malleable. 353 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:50,880 Yes. 354 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:51,279 Good. 355 00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:53,440 So, I can take a lot of feedback on it. 356 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:54,800 That's good because if you told me you 357 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,200 had been working on it for 5 years, 358 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,200 I would feel a little bit trepidacious 359 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,480 about being critical. Well, I think 360 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,079 Corey's remarks were really very 361 00:13:04,079 --> 00:13:06,639 helpful, very nice. And as Corey said, 362 00:13:06,639 --> 00:13:08,639 the voice is really wonderful. I'm not 363 00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:10,079 the kind of woman who would participate 364 00:13:10,079 --> 00:13:12,079 in a threesome, which is exactly why I 365 00:13:12,079 --> 00:13:14,160 went. I'm lately trying to be a 366 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,680 different kind of woman who could pull 367 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,160 off an edgy haircut and I want to be the 368 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:19,760 kind of woman who's going to do this 369 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,079 threesome. So I thought the voice was 370 00:13:22,079 --> 00:13:23,760 really very funny and immediately 371 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:24,800 winning 372 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,320 and I feel that the uh first person 373 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,839 which is Corey's uh perspective also I 374 00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:34,399 feel the first person draws the reader 375 00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:38,800 in much more swiftly than any other 376 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,720 technique. So that's very good. 377 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,120 I'm Jean Seabourg from Breathless in my 378 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,200 mind. 379 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,839 I I think that's okay. 380 00:13:49,839 --> 00:13:52,160 I feel that 381 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,079 the story is best when it's sort of 382 00:13:54,079 --> 00:13:56,399 moving along. And I think I noticed the 383 00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:58,160 second time that I read it, maybe I read 384 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,320 it three times now, the second or third 385 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,800 time I read it, I thought it was sort of 386 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,720 lost some of its power at a certain 387 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,040 point. It had a certain momentum in the 388 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,399 beginning. So let's see. It starts to 389 00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:13,440 lose its power. I think we feel that 390 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,360 Cliff 391 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,959 when she when is she's going to meet up 392 00:14:18,959 --> 00:14:21,680 with Cliff again, we feel that something 393 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,440 is being prepared that's exciting or 394 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,240 dramatic or or or something maybe 395 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,480 repulsive. But then when they actually 396 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,920 meet, it's really sort of anticlimactic. 397 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,800 And we it would be a little better if 398 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,839 she cared about Cliff or she had some 399 00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:40,720 feeling about Cliff that was maybe 400 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,720 ambivalent or she actually liked him 401 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,839 very much at one point and he he took 402 00:14:45,839 --> 00:14:48,560 advantage of her or something. I didn't 403 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,160 feel that the stakes of the story were 404 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,240 maybe high enough to justify the length 405 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,040 of the story. So, we might feel that 406 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,120 that your character is moving into a 407 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,680 situation naively and gets out of her 408 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,000 depth, but we don't ever feel that she's 409 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,720 in much uh actual danger. I would like 410 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,240 to see Cliff be a little more of a 411 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,320 sinister person, though, though not a 412 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,160 villain or not, you know, just maybe 413 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,440 more uh sinister. Did you read that 414 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:14,720 story, Catwoman? 415 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,000 Yeah. in 416 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,360 in the New York I'm sorry, Catman's 417 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,600 Catman, of course, he pretends he's a 418 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,880 Catman in sort of online, but when when 419 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,959 you actually meet him, there's something 420 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:29,519 about the Catman 421 00:15:29,519 --> 00:15:33,360 man that is so 422 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,839 absolutely creepy without being a 423 00:15:35,839 --> 00:15:37,839 cartoon. like he's in like an achingly 424 00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:41,040 real man 425 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,120 who's sort of mysterious, but then you 426 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,279 see where he lives because the story 427 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:47,279 takes us into his living quarters and 428 00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:50,560 get a different view of him and he turns 429 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,560 out at the end to be like a stalker and 430 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,639 he he actually could be a horrible 431 00:15:54,639 --> 00:15:57,040 rapist or who knows he could be a serial 432 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,680 killer you know I think that when the 433 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,120 girl is riding with him in the car 434 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,040 doesn't she say you know you could be a 435 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,040 serial killer or some crazy thing like 436 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,519 that But with Cliff, we never really 437 00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:10,079 feel that there's much probably that's 438 00:16:10,079 --> 00:16:12,399 going to happen. So, I would I would 439 00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:16,160 make that a little more uh 440 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,240 ambiguous. 441 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,320 For instance, on page four, you have a 442 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,199 lot of summary paragraphs. 443 00:16:23,199 --> 00:16:25,120 His Ronnie making job. He worked at the 444 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,759 Jones with a a 445 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:30,639 Jones or spaghetti. It's sort of chatty, 446 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:32,720 you know, but it's not. You're on page 447 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,880 four. I think needs to accelerate a 448 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,880 little more. And then Ilsa sells 449 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,120 crystals. At least I think that's what 450 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,360 she does. She had an 8-year 451 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,000 relationship. Uh, all this is sort of 452 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,920 flat, you know. It's a little It's a 453 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,639 little um expository. 454 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:51,120 I never figured out how old Elsa was. It 455 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:52,399 didn't seem to matter. She could have 456 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:54,880 been 31 or 45. I think that there was 457 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,880 some sort of sexual rivalry or or 458 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,920 jealousy. Even though the Bianca doesn't 459 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,800 really care really about Cliff, she 460 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,600 still would feel some rivalry with her. 461 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,480 So, she could be 31 or 45. That seems a 462 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,959 little, you know, prefuncter. Like if 463 00:17:12,959 --> 00:17:15,360 she doesn't care, like maybe the reader 464 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:17,199 the reader doesn't care either. I'd 465 00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:19,199 rather see that old Elsa was of a 466 00:17:19,199 --> 00:17:21,199 certain age, but she seems to be 467 00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:23,919 behaving younger and the narrator could 468 00:17:23,919 --> 00:17:25,839 very easily try to find out how old she 469 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:28,880 was just out of curiosity. You know, I'd 470 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,960 like her to be a little more curious. So 471 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,039 anyway, on page eight, when Cliff 472 00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:34,799 finally 473 00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:36,799 embraces Bianca, how are you? Threw his 474 00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:39,760 arms around me, kissed my head. I I 475 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,679 didn't feel that that there was enough 476 00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:43,520 emotion. 477 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,679 I I didn't really see him too well. I 478 00:17:45,679 --> 00:17:47,120 think Cliff in a way is a little bit 479 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,160 vague, but I I like the idea that Cliff 480 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,799 might invite a a girl to stay with him 481 00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:56,799 without even telling Elsa about it as a 482 00:17:56,799 --> 00:18:00,960 kind of sly uh tormenting of Ilsa. You 483 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,200 know, having two women relating to him, 484 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,960 that might be something that he might 485 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,200 do. 486 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,840 What I was going to suggest is that that 487 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,799 raisin and poncho could be conjoined 488 00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:15,360 somehow. There's so many animals. 489 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:16,799 Yeah, there's a lot. It's like a zoo in 490 00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:17,200 there. 491 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,120 And then Cliff has his um his his 492 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:24,080 accident, you know, and there's the cat 493 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,960 outside and then the ants are, you know, 494 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,960 the story has a lot of what I would call 495 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,200 bits. I'm not sure that they're 496 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,520 integrated that well. Each of them is 497 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,160 sort of comic in a in a in a minor way. 498 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,000 You know, there's nothing really absurd 499 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,600 or monumentally absurd. uh a a Donald 500 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,600 Bartholomew story might turn upon one 501 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,039 image that's pretty absurd, you know, 502 00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:47,440 but the stories tend to be pretty short, 503 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,640 like four or five pages at the most. So, 504 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,520 I would probably I hate to say it, but I 505 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,919 would probably get rid of that cat. The 506 00:18:55,919 --> 00:18:58,880 cat doesn't do as Poncho is eating the 507 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,720 the uh pineapple with the blood on it. 508 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,200 Yeah. 509 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,799 But the cat probably wouldn't eat the 510 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:08,160 pineapple. The cat could lick the blood. 511 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,400 I mean, you want you want one animal 512 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,520 there to sort of react to the the blood. 513 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,280 So, it could actually be cat or the dog. 514 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,520 One is wheezing and snorting and 515 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,440 barking. 516 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,080 He snarled maliciously through congested 517 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,080 nostrils. So, you've sort of described 518 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,480 him. Raisin is a 20 pound cat sprawled 519 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,720 on a pile of Easter grass. Probably the 520 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,520 story isn't long enough to have two 521 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,160 weird animals or sort of fat animals and 522 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,960 wheezing and but I like this poncho 523 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,240 practice niceness, 524 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,039 you know, not not be nice but practice 525 00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:51,039 niceness 526 00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:53,280 and then the shakush 527 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,559 shashka. 528 00:19:54,559 --> 00:19:56,640 Yes. 529 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,039 So you have bits. You have the Natalie 530 00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:02,000 Wood. You have the Shashka with the 531 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,320 mystery meat in it. You have the older 532 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,600 actress. You have the trail of ants. 533 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,919 You have maybe something else here. I 534 00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:14,520 would call these bits 535 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,160 and the pineapple that probably should 536 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,960 should stay in. But I think that you 537 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,880 have too many of these things. I didn't 538 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,679 feel that the the threesome was really a 539 00:20:25,679 --> 00:20:28,720 probability. It didn't seem very real. 540 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,480 Wouldn't if that something was really 541 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,960 going to happen, 542 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,039 Bianca would be a little more tense or 543 00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:37,600 they'd all be a little more nervous or 544 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,440 something about it or they'd have to 545 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,320 self-medicate or or something. It just 546 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,480 didn't seem that this was actually 547 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,520 anything that was really going to 548 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:46,559 happen. You know, it's more like they 549 00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:48,640 might play cards together and that 550 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,600 didn't and that didn't happen. 551 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,360 It might be interesting if Cliff as an 552 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,240 actor actually was a promising actor and 553 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,240 was actually had a bit part in the movie 554 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,320 or something and he was somebody who 555 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,559 could become a real actor but pro 556 00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:05,360 probably he won't. I just think Cliff 557 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,120 has to be heightened a little so that we 558 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,440 care more about him. Now I like the idea 559 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,200 of we're getting the jacket. I think 560 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,159 that's very important. Now she gets the 561 00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:16,080 jacket but then the trail of ants come 562 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,159 after that. I think it'd be better to 563 00:21:18,159 --> 00:21:21,280 get the jacket a little later and well 564 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,360 end the story when you she gets the 565 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:26,640 jacket now. The older actress I I think 566 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,080 Corey is quite right. I think she should 567 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,679 just stay in the apartment and not get 568 00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:33,280 out at all. I I thought that was a real 569 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,520 um slump. The older actress, it's like a 570 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,440 koi suggestion that we're supposed to 571 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,760 know who this is, but we don't we don't 572 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,640 really know who it is and she's not in 573 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,200 the narrative. So, I think it drags a 574 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,280 bit. 575 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,039 And then on page 17, her insight about 576 00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:54,960 the clothing, 577 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,120 I thought that was very good, but it 578 00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:59,039 needed something more after that, that 579 00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:02,159 Elsa has to acknowledge that she's Elsa 580 00:22:02,159 --> 00:22:04,480 has to acknowledge that Bianca knows 581 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,360 what she's doing and that she Elsa has 582 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:10,320 been improved and and this is really uh 583 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,880 it's really wonderful. So right here on 584 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,600 page 17, you need some reaction to that. 585 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,919 That's a nice paragraph, but then it 586 00:22:17,919 --> 00:22:20,159 goes too fast. Okay. Then he cuts 587 00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:22,480 himself. 588 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,320 I'm wondering if he could be cut 589 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,679 accidentally by somebody else. 590 00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:30,720 Where then just cutting himself? 591 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,120 Just an accident. You know, as Freud 592 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,440 said, there are no accidents. They're 593 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,960 cutting something. Whoops. 594 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,559 Oh my gosh. Yeah. 595 00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:42,320 Here, Bianca, you cut it. You know, Ilsa 596 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:43,600 Elsa is cutting it. She says, "Well, you 597 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:44,240 could do this." And 598 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:45,360 someone's like, 599 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,280 "So, it's like the two women are cutting 600 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,280 the man and they want him gone. Then 601 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,640 when he's gone, they don't want to go 602 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,880 visit him." And like he's he's his blood 603 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,480 is on the floor. 604 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,880 Now, if this were a Gothic story, they'd 605 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,640 both be licking the blood, you know, but 606 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,400 it's not a Gothic story, so you don't 607 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,320 want to do that. But I like the idea of 608 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,080 the pineapple with the blood on it and 609 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,039 the the cat or the dog licking it. So, 610 00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:10,159 Corey, what did you think about the um 611 00:23:10,159 --> 00:23:12,960 Terara deck and page 20? 612 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,200 Oh, yeah. Um 613 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,280 that section 614 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,520 I I think it's an opportunity. It's like 615 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,679 a humanizing moment that Elsa hasn't had 616 00:23:21,679 --> 00:23:23,440 yet. Now that Cliff has left the scene, 617 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,360 I think I think that's this moment that 618 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:30,000 this kind of oppressive borish guy has 619 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,440 now gone. There can be a more shared 620 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,159 moment between the women. Um so, there's 621 00:23:34,159 --> 00:23:36,240 certainly opportunity there. I don't I I 622 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,919 don't know a ton about tarot or like how 623 00:23:37,919 --> 00:23:42,000 it's supposed to go or like um 624 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,240 there's actually a lot of references to 625 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,720 ter like knowing references to tarot 626 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,360 that went over my head. Uh so I wonder 627 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:50,720 if they could be possibly explained 628 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,760 better. If you put um our main character 629 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,200 in a situation where she also doesn't 630 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,520 understand tarot, then then Elsa can 631 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:58,880 explain it and you learn more about 632 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,080 about Elsa and 633 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,039 Oh, that'd be a good point. 634 00:24:01,039 --> 00:24:04,880 And the reader gets those details. Um, 635 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,799 but there's obvious I mean it's an it's 636 00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:08,480 an enchanted object, right? Like the 637 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,080 possibility that's inherent in a tarot 638 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,159 deck for a story is very high. Like the 639 00:24:12,159 --> 00:24:14,080 possibility of predicting death or 640 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,679 foreseeing the future or the past is 641 00:24:15,679 --> 00:24:18,080 very high. So as an object, I think it's 642 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,919 a good one. Um, I think like all many 643 00:24:21,919 --> 00:24:24,799 points in this story like ratcheting way 644 00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:28,640 up like even just as an experiment might 645 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:29,919 might take you somewhere interesting 646 00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:31,200 even if you have to scale back a little 647 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:31,520 bit. 648 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,880 Yeah. Well, you could write a whole 649 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,559 story with the tarot being the title, 650 00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:36,320 you know, or one of the figures of one 651 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,799 of the cards being the title. 652 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:40,720 I think that in this story comes in the 653 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,640 wrong place and maybe maybe it should be 654 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:43,919 another story 655 00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:45,679 because a certain amount of magic and 656 00:24:45,679 --> 00:24:48,480 power and it seems that it's not given 657 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,360 enough attention, you know. So, also 658 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,080 once she gets the jacket, I think the 659 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,400 story should start to end. So, you want 660 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,000 to be careful about that positioning. I 661 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,240 would cut the terra deck from this 662 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,159 story, but I would I would keep it 663 00:25:04,159 --> 00:25:06,480 because writers are like cooks. They 664 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,840 they keep everything in in the 665 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,039 refrigerator and put it all in the 666 00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:11,039 casserole. Like what doesn't go in for 667 00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:12,400 dinner tonight? Well, it's going to show 668 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,039 up next Sunday. So, just put it because 669 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:17,200 your story has a few too many bits in 670 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,679 it. You know, like then she's sleeping 671 00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:21,760 upside down in the bed with them. That's 672 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,360 another bit. You know, you have like 673 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:25,520 seven of these little things. But 674 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,200 stealing the jacket and him cutting or 675 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,880 somebody cutting him, those are the main 676 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,600 points, you know. So anyway, it was 677 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,360 really interesting story and we got a 678 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,520 lot out of it. The stru the strength of 679 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,600 the story is the narrative voice and and 680 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,919 the character. It's really a story about 681 00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:45,440 a very interesting character.